Now I really, really hate doing this!!!

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24 Apr 2012 10:44 #1 by Grumpy42
Now I really, really hate doing this!!! was created by Grumpy42
As a few people might have noticed I'm a dedicated nitro user - BUT - I now need to know a few of the fundamentals of electric power (SOB). Not for myself I hasten to add, but a mate of mine is struggling a bit with the concept and he needs some help. I have a knowledge of the basics of electronics so you don't need to go back to square one. What I need is some simple answers to sort out a few misconceptions my mate might have.

OK - the first thing is there any reason why brushless motors won't run on 36Mhtz equipment -I know you blokes use - I think - 35 meg - but the principal will be the same. To my mind I can't see any problem but I've been told you need a different ESC to run brushless motors.

Second thing - how does a BEC fit in and why is it included in some ESC's and not in others - eeerrrr - I do understand that a BEC is a battery elimination circuit.

I probably have enough electronics knowledge to sit down and work all this out for myself but my mate is an elderly gent - has no electronics experience, and I feel certain that there is enough knowledge on this forum to provide a simple explanation that he can understand.

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24 Apr 2012 13:14 #2 by THE BLACKBIRD
Replied by THE BLACKBIRD on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
I think with all my experiece im not the one to answer your questions Grumpy :P :P :P

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  • Klipkopwildlife
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24 Apr 2012 13:32 - 24 Apr 2012 13:33 #3 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Hi Mick, leccies are very noisy from an electronics point of view 2.4gigs handles the noise better than 36meg. The reason is that because the ESC is switching DC you have square waves all over the place, and a square wave contains all the odd harmonics from 1 to infinity. If you're very unlucky one of these might be on your operating frequency and swamp your receiver! This is why you must always do a proper range check, never take a chance!
Discounting different amperages and total volts, there are only 2 types of ESC, one for brushed (can) motors, this has 4 main wires, 2 in, 2 out and usually a plug to power the receiver. The general concensus is, chuck all brushed stuff away and start over! Brushless ESCs' have 2 in and 3 out and usually a plug to power the receiver. The ESC actually generates it's own 3 phase signal to drive the motor, then checks the speed of rotation in the gaps in the signal! All clever stuff! There are two types of brushless motor, inrunner and outrunner, the inrunners tend to be the types with the higher Kv because the rotor is inside, and therefore smaller diameter, these are mostly used for EDFs. The outrunner types are much more common, the propeller is mounted on the case and the whole lot spins on a backplate, rather like a Gnome! It is very important with outrunners to make absolutely sure that the wires are kept away from the spinning case! Prop direction is changed by literally swopping 2 of the 3 wires around!
To Bec or not to Bec that is the question, It's usually the larger ESCs that don't have Bec, I guess it's because the models are large, expensive and tend to have redundancy systems built in. Most ESCs have 2 or 3 amp Becs, the stand alone types go 5 or 8 amps and more!
I prefer a separate receiver supply myself (there's a thread on this site) since if you're using the ESC Bec and the battery fails it's goodbye model! With a separate supply it's only a dead stick!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Last edit: 24 Apr 2012 13:33 by Klipkopwildlife.

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24 Apr 2012 18:26 #4 by admin
Now THAT! was a comprehensive reply! haha.

Enjoyed reading that klippy.

"most people give up just as they're about to succeed" Napoleon Hill
"luck is when preparation meets opportunity" Oprah Winfrey

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24 Apr 2012 18:58 #5 by Grumpy42
Replied by Grumpy42 on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Clear, concise and an exact answer to my query. Thanks Klippy.

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24 Apr 2012 19:49 #6 by Garry Pollard
Replied by Garry Pollard on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Perfectly put Kippy.

Garry

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  • Klipkopwildlife
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24 Apr 2012 20:14 #7 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
:whistle: B) :whistle: B) :whistle: B) :whistle: B) :)

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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24 Apr 2012 22:27 #8 by Eric
One bit that Klippy glossed over, but you might not have understood -
types with the higher Kv
Kv is merely revs per volt of the power supply.
Otherwise spot on.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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25 Apr 2012 14:53 #9 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Humpf, I never get anything right!:)
Kv is a way of denoting the speed of the motor. First decide on a propeller size, since this is often limited by certain factors, then decide on the maximum speed you want and up it by 20%. Now divide that speed (in inches per minute) by the pitch prop you want to use. (I find 6" is a good jack of all trades) The number that you end up with is the RPM you're going to need at full throttle.
Right, now make a decision as to Battery voltage, Lipos' work in leaps of 3.7volts, and I recommend anybody to buy 3S at the outset, since they're the commonest and therefore the cheapest (economy of scale). 3S indicates 3 cells wired in series, and series means that the voltages are additive, so that's 11.1volts, isn't it?
Now we have enough information to plug in some numbers
60mph
6"
11.1v
60mph = 1mile/minute = 1 x 6280 x 12 = 12,560rpm, the maximum rpm we're going to need
12560/11.1 = 1131Kv
That exact number is not going to be available but 1200Kv is a common size. You can work out for yourself what to maximum RPM will be!
We don't have enough informative to flex the plastic yet, but we've made a start.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Grumpy42

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25 Apr 2012 14:56 #10 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Just to confuse everyone, as far as I'm concerned the Kv nomenclature is wrong, in the electronics world a 1,200ohm resistor is called 1.2K ie 1.2 x 1,000. To me a 1,200Kv motor should be called a 1.2Kv.

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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25 Apr 2012 19:51 - 25 Apr 2012 19:56 #11 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
I too have wondered about Kv.

It is apparently the motor velocity constant measured in RPM/V and should be written Kv but rarely (apart from this site!!) do the fonts allow subscript so it tends to be written Kv.
So technically the K does not mean 1000 nor the v volts.

But then I always found magnetism a nightmare with units like Gauss, Oersted, Maxwell, Gamma, Weber & Tesla.

I find it hard to even understand what these units actually mean.
Testla = Volt second/meter squared
yeah right!!!
Last edit: 25 Apr 2012 19:56 by Quorneng.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

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26 Apr 2012 00:30 - 26 Apr 2012 00:30 #12 by Eric
Tesla = Volt second/meter squared - I see the words.......:S

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 26 Apr 2012 00:30 by Eric. Reason: typo

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26 Apr 2012 06:24 #13 by Grumpy42
Replied by Grumpy42 on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Huh? - the foot bone is connected to the ankle bone and the ankle bones is connected to the ........ AAAAAARGH!!!! I knew there was a good reason I've stayed with I/C engines. You only have to think about port timing, fuel mixtures, prop sizes, fuel tank position and tuned pipes and resonant waves and ......... I think I'll take up gliding and only have to worry about - Oh shit!!! - Aerodynamics!!! :S :S :S

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26 Apr 2012 16:10 #14 by Eric
And that old chap Isaac, with his apple, then there is meteorology, for the wind, and thermals, and......

Nothing is as simple as it seems, except me! :P

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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26 Apr 2012 17:52 #15 by Flytilbroke
Replied by Flytilbroke on topic Re: Now I really, really hate doing this!!!
Nah! no need to worry about aerowottchamallit. Just buy ARTF including all the gubbins. :evil:

Have a nice Day, unless I don't like you.

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