S.Bus2

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21 Jun 2013 08:26 - 21 Jun 2013 13:00 #1 by Klipkopwildlife
S.Bus2 was created by Klipkopwildlife
S.Bus2 is a newish method of connecting servos from Futaba. The new R7008sb RX from Futaba has a separate S.Bus2 connector on it. Serial Bus has been around for years, what it means is that two heavy duty battery wires run around the aircraft with a third signal wire. The signal itself comprises a Start bit, a series of information bits and a stop bit. To be honest the string of info from your TX is exactly that! The RX merely separates out the channel information and places it on separate sockets for your own use. What Futaba have done is made the serial stream from the TX available to you in the aircraft, this means you can run a 3 wire main around the aircraft and plug S.Bus servos into it. The down side is cost, and the fact that you have to plug the servo into the back of your TX to program it, before you fix it in the aircraft. You can program things like, channel number, speed, dead band, end point and neutral, to name but a few. I believe that a separate programmer is also available to do this.
Why would you do this one asks? Well, suppose you have a 4 servo wing, not that unusual I understand. You could run the Bus out into the wing and have 2 S.Bus servos set to Aileron1 (Channel 1) and the other wing half servos set to Aileron2 (Channel 6) Preset all your info and the servos do the rest, no more servos fighting one another!
Once you've done this you would have to remember that Channels 1 & 6 can no longer be used on the RX itself, unless, of course you want to split the ailerons and use standard analogue servos on the split section. Many full size gliders use this system when you don't want too much throw out towards the wing tip.
Beware, you can't mix S.Bus2 and S.Bus servos on the same Bus system!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Last edit: 21 Jun 2013 13:00 by Klipkopwildlife.
Thanks: Quorneng, THE BLACKBIRD

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21 Jun 2013 12:59 #2 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic S.Bus2
For the record, I don't mind banter, just remember, if you can't take it, don't dish it!
If you can shed some light, please feel free.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: THE BLACKBIRD

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22 Jun 2013 03:58 #3 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic S.Bus2
I need a bit of clarification here please Klippy, & as you know, I'm fine with serious electronics & could probably go & google this system.
The reason I haven't, is that I'm stuck for time .... & this is the advantage of the forum.
I understand the advantages of a single bus with the power heavy cables... but this signal wire????
Are you saying that the entire digital data stream is passed down a single wire to all servo's & the decoding is done in the servo itself?
Where a normal Rx decodes the signal & then splits it into each channel output .... this system leaves the programmed servo to decide which bit of data it has to respond to? ..... If so, ... hasn't it just moved the decoder?

Pol.

I just own the forum .... you guys make it great thanks.
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22 Jun 2013 17:28 #4 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic S.Bus2
Exactly right Phil, I imagine Futaba now have a proprietary chip that they can throw into servos and hubs, costs them just a few cents. You can also buy a hub that gives you 3 standard servo outputs.

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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22 Jun 2013 17:43 #5 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic S.Bus2

Klipkopwildlife wrote: Exactly right Phil, I imagine Futaba now have a proprietary chip that they can throw into servos and hubs, costs them just a few cents. You can also buy a hub that gives you 3 standard servo outputs.

I'm still a little stuck on seeing the advantages ..... no doubt there are several, or they wouldn't have bothered... I need to get my thinking cap on. :)

I just own the forum .... you guys make it great thanks.

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22 Jun 2013 17:57 #6 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic S.Bus2
Short of reducing the amount of wiring the S.Bus servos can have a lot of local programming. You can also now have extra battery packs anywhere in the plane. Think about a complex glider that can have up to 8 servos in each wing, camber changing, ailerons, spoilers, reduced travel on the outboard ailerons, all on only three wires!

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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22 Jun 2013 18:09 #7 by alan cantwell
Replied by alan cantwell on topic S.Bus2
head, over , WHOOSH what happened to the days we went out flying with a wot4, 4 old servos, and a500mh ni-cad, that had seen better days, flew all day, and went home happy, and unstressed, :P

go on, i can take it, :evil:

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22 Jun 2013 18:39 #8 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic S.Bus2
"Think about a complex glider that can have up to 8 servos in each wing, camber changing, ailerons, spoilers, reduced travel on the outboard ailerons, all on only three wires!"

And a lot of cash!

Now if Futaba were being really obtuse (which they are known to be) they would add even more complexity, superimpose the signal and use just two wires!

A full size glider achieves all those functions (and in both wings) with just 3 "servos". Flap lever, Air brake lever and Joy stick.
Long live mechanical linkage! ;)

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22 Jun 2013 18:55 #9 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic S.Bus2

alan cantwell wrote: head, over , WHOOSH what happened to the days we went out flying with a wot4, 4 old servos, and a500mh ni-cad, that had seen better days, flew all day, and went home happy, and unstressed, :P

go on, i can take it, :evil:

It was great in those days Alan ... but things progressed.
I don't want to take this thread off topic Klippy, but Alan's comment has reminded me of something I mentioned to Garry on our last flying session.
I seem to remember a Tx with a roll button. ...... I don't think it was a simple half rate button.
I think the general idea was that you could program the Tx to do a "Perfect" roll.
It was essentially some form of simple recording system that allowed you to do a mix of elevator, aileron & rudder.... you could keep doing rolls until you got it right ..... then you could just hit the button for every following roll.
Sounds like I've been dreaming doesn't it? :)
I still can't see much advantage with this new system ... a bit of weight saving because of less wires maybe.... but that's about it.
It would of course mean that the Rx required only one output .... each servo would select which part of the data stream it was to respond to.
The servo motor wires would also offer less resistance by working on the domestic ring main system.
I see it as an alternative system, .... but I don't see much in the way of it being a better system.
The chances are that some boffin will come out of the woodwork & shoot me down in flames .... such are the advantages of modern technology. ;)

I just own the forum .... you guys make it great thanks.

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22 Jun 2013 19:07 #10 by alan cantwell
Replied by alan cantwell on topic S.Bus2
only jesting, i use similar, i use JR Matchboxes, these can let me plug in several servos, and set them individually, i can also use programmable servos with my HI-TEC programmer, these i can set up individually for each control surface, is this similar to this futaba thing?

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22 Jun 2013 21:16 #11 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic S.Bus2
This Sbus system sounds very like the DCC system now being used in model railways, where one controller can operate up to 60 loco's - individually, because each loco has it's own decoder chip with it's own address.

You will probably find that the same three wires will turn lights on and off, operate sound effects, and anything else that the gadgeteers can dream up.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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23 Jun 2013 08:22 - 23 Jun 2013 09:15 #12 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic S.Bus2

alan cantwell wrote: only jesting, i use similar, i use JR Matchboxes, these can let me plug in several servos, and set them individually, i can also use programmable servos with my HI-TEC programmer, these i can set up individually for each control surface, is this similar to this futaba thing?

Exactly Alan, one of the reasons I'm doing this overview is because 10years from now all our radio stuff is going to be done this way. Not too long ago somebody on RCM&E did a future cast of what people would be doing 20years from now, Looking back over the last 20years, he wasn't far wrong!
Yes Eric, exactly like the DCC system, except that we don't get so many channels outgoing, we do however have 31 channels incoming!
Unfortunately Phil if we use a ring system we won't have the advantage of being able to distribute additional batteries around the plane. Also don't make the mistake of being egocentric! The Heli boys use quite a few functions, and use the S.Bus to connect their gyros. And, we haven't even touched ships!
The 14SG has a Roll function you can press, and yes it does exactly that!
Yes Simon it is eyewateringly expensive, but then many of us remember how expensive (as a proportion of income) a 4 channel set was 30 years ago! 5 years from now Analogue servos will be both expensive and only a small part of the market, the rest will all be programmable digital connected to an RX that does the channel distribution or to the S.Bus! And, by todays standards, cheap!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Last edit: 23 Jun 2013 09:15 by Klipkopwildlife.

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23 Jun 2013 10:39 #13 by old fart
Replied by old fart on topic S.Bus2
In the early 70's a (very) basic four channel set woild cos about one or two months salary. :huh:

There is nothing like a dream to create the future.

Electrickery is the work of the devil.

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23 Jun 2013 10:56 #14 by alan cantwell
Replied by alan cantwell on topic S.Bus2
yes, but they where hand built, by talented high end skilled assemblers, flow soldering and robot component placing, let alone silicone chips, had not even been thought of, electronic assembly is now the work of robots, and its done in the tens of millions, its become cheaper, and quicker to assemble, a classic proof of this is the humble pocket calculater, i bought a top of the line scentific last year for £4.99, when the scentific hit the shops, the cost was in the hundereds, chips with everything, thats what i say,, but then, even warfare would be simple, one large EM burst, and the dark ages beckon, :unsure:

sorry, i diverse :oops:

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23 Jun 2013 12:51 #15 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic S.Bus2
The crystal ball gazing of twenty years ago may have predicted the ability of RC gear but did it predict the RTF boom?

A relatively simple 4 channel plane complete and ready to fly out of the box for what was then the price of a couple of servos and sold in tens if not hundreds of thousands.
The market forces this produces are very significant, for example, buy a plane servo of any type from anywhere and the chances are its plug fits (despite Futaba's best efforts ;) ) and it will work on any radio.

Distributed encoding will surely only become significant (i.e. cheap!) if and when a standard system is adopted.

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