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Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
- Pylonuk
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14 Nov 2020 12:26 #1
by Pylonuk
Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results was created by Pylonuk
We had a very interesting thread on the 'Vanessa rig' recently, I had never seen that device before and it looked useful for larger models.
Ralph also mentioned using scales at the models extremities, something like corner weight scales on a racing car.
I showed a simple C of G stand that I use for that check.
Lets hear what everyone's experiences are of build accuracies and good rigging techniques to get models that practically fly off of the boards.
Discuss.
Baz
Ralph also mentioned using scales at the models extremities, something like corner weight scales on a racing car.
I showed a simple C of G stand that I use for that check.
Lets hear what everyone's experiences are of build accuracies and good rigging techniques to get models that practically fly off of the boards.
Discuss.
Baz
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife
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- Pylonuk
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14 Nov 2020 12:49 #2
by Pylonuk
Replied by Pylonuk on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Ok so lets kick off with some numbers from my pylon racer builds.
On the smaller C32 models as in my avatar which are restricted to 1000mm wing span, the first thing I do is to establish a centre line down the fuselage, this will be used to get the wing lined up.
I mount the wing and usually set the wing CL at the leading edge to the one established on the fuselage. Then i measure the triangulation of the wing back to the fuselage CL at the tail end, I am for a max deviation side to side of 1 mm per 1000mm of wing span.
I temporally hold the wing in position with masking tape to enable fine adjustments, once happy with the position I mark off mounting holes and remove the wing prior to drilling and fitting fixing points, I always bolt the wings to the fuselage.
Once the fixings are fitted then I reassemble and recheck the trinagulation.
Next stage installing the tailplane.
B.
On the smaller C32 models as in my avatar which are restricted to 1000mm wing span, the first thing I do is to establish a centre line down the fuselage, this will be used to get the wing lined up.
I mount the wing and usually set the wing CL at the leading edge to the one established on the fuselage. Then i measure the triangulation of the wing back to the fuselage CL at the tail end, I am for a max deviation side to side of 1 mm per 1000mm of wing span.
I temporally hold the wing in position with masking tape to enable fine adjustments, once happy with the position I mark off mounting holes and remove the wing prior to drilling and fitting fixing points, I always bolt the wings to the fuselage.
Once the fixings are fitted then I reassemble and recheck the trinagulation.
Next stage installing the tailplane.
B.
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- Ralpharr2001
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14 Nov 2020 13:45 #3
by Ralpharr2001
I'm currently unsupervised. I know it freaks me out as well, but the possibilities are endless!!
Replied by Ralpharr2001 on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Interesting Barrie that you set the wings to the centre line of the fuse. How do you measure the wing tip to the rear centre line accurate to 1mm?
I'm currently unsupervised. I know it freaks me out as well, but the possibilities are endless!!
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- Eric
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14 Nov 2020 15:37 - 14 Nov 2020 15:39 #4
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
I start by looking at the 3-view, if it is a 'real' aeroplane, and usually find that the top of the turtledeck, from the cockpit/main-plane rear edge, is usually horizontal, in the in-flight attitude - so call that the zero datum. (I like the slightly nose-down attitude in cruise flight, rather than the tail-scraper) Then I set the wing and thrust zero's to that.
There's always the awkward ones with the hump-back, usually of wood construction, like the Zlins and the Hurricane, etc, where that doesn't work. For those, there is often a main structural stringer that will serve.
For squaring up, I use a pin, stuck in the measured centre of the extreme rear of the fuz, then a retracting tape measure from mainplane wingtip te to pin, matching up both sides. Then I move the pin to the front of the fuz, and do the same for the tailplane, having ensured that the mounting surface is parallel to the wing underside in the head-on view. Then the fin goes on, with a set-square to the tail wing, and a straight-edge to the pin in the fuz.
I stated retracting tape-measure - people do use bits of string, or cloth measures, but I think they can lead to inaccuracy. For an experiment, securely fasten one end to your heavy work-bench or something, and measure a metre or so out, with just enough tension to remove the 'sag'. Mark that point on the bench, and now pull harder on the string/cloth tape. You will probably find your mark is a few millimeters short!
For what I want, that is good enough - I don't need 100% accuracy, as I don't go in for top level competition flying.
So - if it all looks straight, and it flies straight, that's good enough for me.
We've already had a discussion - in a different thread - of where the zero datum is, on a wing section, and the difference between that and incidence.
There's always the awkward ones with the hump-back, usually of wood construction, like the Zlins and the Hurricane, etc, where that doesn't work. For those, there is often a main structural stringer that will serve.
For squaring up, I use a pin, stuck in the measured centre of the extreme rear of the fuz, then a retracting tape measure from mainplane wingtip te to pin, matching up both sides. Then I move the pin to the front of the fuz, and do the same for the tailplane, having ensured that the mounting surface is parallel to the wing underside in the head-on view. Then the fin goes on, with a set-square to the tail wing, and a straight-edge to the pin in the fuz.
I stated retracting tape-measure - people do use bits of string, or cloth measures, but I think they can lead to inaccuracy. For an experiment, securely fasten one end to your heavy work-bench or something, and measure a metre or so out, with just enough tension to remove the 'sag'. Mark that point on the bench, and now pull harder on the string/cloth tape. You will probably find your mark is a few millimeters short!
For what I want, that is good enough - I don't need 100% accuracy, as I don't go in for top level competition flying.
So - if it all looks straight, and it flies straight, that's good enough for me.
We've already had a discussion - in a different thread - of where the zero datum is, on a wing section, and the difference between that and incidence.
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 14 Nov 2020 15:39 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
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- Pylonuk
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14 Nov 2020 16:11 - 14 Nov 2020 16:11 #5
by Pylonuk
Replied by Pylonuk on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Hello Ralph
The measurement you mention is not too difficult to nail down.
I use a 1 metre steel rule, on a pylon racer, I am generally looking at measurement in the 750 to 800mm range, of course picking the correct point on the wingtip that is consistent in both wing panels can be a challenge, I usually aim for the end of the wing core rather than something that has been attacked with a sanding block at the tip.
Of course the measurement is taken many times to get a feeling of consistency, I find with care that it is very repeatable, of course it does not matter if the measurement is not accurate just that it is consistent side to side.
Baz
The measurement you mention is not too difficult to nail down.
I use a 1 metre steel rule, on a pylon racer, I am generally looking at measurement in the 750 to 800mm range, of course picking the correct point on the wingtip that is consistent in both wing panels can be a challenge, I usually aim for the end of the wing core rather than something that has been attacked with a sanding block at the tip.
Of course the measurement is taken many times to get a feeling of consistency, I find with care that it is very repeatable, of course it does not matter if the measurement is not accurate just that it is consistent side to side.
Baz
Last edit: 14 Nov 2020 16:11 by Pylonuk.
Thanks: Ralpharr2001
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- supertigrefan
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14 Nov 2020 17:40 - 14 Nov 2020 17:42 #6
by supertigrefan
Stay low, Move fast, Trust no-one....
Replied by supertigrefan on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
If you like to use string as a measure, use fishing braid, it's thin and it doesn't stretch, anglers use it when fishing at distance so they get a more direct bite indication and can set the hook without having to overcome the stretch of monofilament lines which softens the strike.
Just buy a cheap one, anything else is a waste.
Just buy a cheap one, anything else is a waste.
Stay low, Move fast, Trust no-one....
Last edit: 14 Nov 2020 17:42 by supertigrefan. Reason: Bloody autcorrect! Grrrrrrr!
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- paul d
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14 Nov 2020 19:06 #7
by paul d
balsa is best.
Replied by paul d on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
I'm pretty much with you Eric, although I prefer a slight nose high attitude and all my models have positive incendence on at least one surface and have varying degrees of down thrust.
To be honest the mk1 eye ball is fairly accurate, it's not until you start looking for ultimate performance as in Barries racing models that it'll make much difference.
Good flying models start with a accurately built airframe and a good standard of finish to the covering.
To be honest the mk1 eye ball is fairly accurate, it's not until you start looking for ultimate performance as in Barries racing models that it'll make much difference.
Good flying models start with a accurately built airframe and a good standard of finish to the covering.
balsa is best.
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14 Nov 2020 20:27 #8
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
To me - nose high always suggests under-powered and about to stall! ![[badass]](/media/kunena/emoticons/bad_boys_20.gif "[badass]")
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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- Pylonuk
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14 Nov 2020 20:28 #9
by Pylonuk
Replied by Pylonuk on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Paul and Eric
I also place a huge importance on the eye sight.
I remember when I was 16 and doing my apprenticeship, one of the instructors said how fine can you measure with a decent 6" steel rule, we all said 1/64" as that was the finest graduation on the rule, he said do you think that you can see half way between those graduations, we said yes sure, so now you can get some idea down to 1/128".
Generally good flying models are a state of mind, you set out to build a nice accurate model at all stages and are rewarded with a good flier, that is part of the attraction of the hobby.
Paul are you the same Paul D who posts over on the Barton Control Line forum?
Baz
I also place a huge importance on the eye sight.
I remember when I was 16 and doing my apprenticeship, one of the instructors said how fine can you measure with a decent 6" steel rule, we all said 1/64" as that was the finest graduation on the rule, he said do you think that you can see half way between those graduations, we said yes sure, so now you can get some idea down to 1/128".
Generally good flying models are a state of mind, you set out to build a nice accurate model at all stages and are rewarded with a good flier, that is part of the attraction of the hobby.
Paul are you the same Paul D who posts over on the Barton Control Line forum?
Baz
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- paul d
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14 Nov 2020 21:14 #10
by paul d
balsa is best.
Replied by paul d on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Yes Barrie that's me! Been reading up on pulse jets, very interesting! Eric, when I say nose high I don't mean hanging on the prop, aeroplanes fly UP in the sky not DOWN in the ground.
balsa is best.
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14 Nov 2020 23:24 #11
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Next time you're at Barton, say hello to Chris Martindale, from me!
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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15 Nov 2020 08:48 #12
by paul d
balsa is best.
Replied by paul d on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
I don't fly at Barton Eric, I'm just a casual lurker on there forum.
balsa is best.
Thanks: Eric, supertigrefan
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- supertigrefan
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15 Nov 2020 09:32 #13
by supertigrefan
Stay low, Move fast, Trust no-one....
Replied by supertigrefan on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
It's a very informative site, they have a lot of useful info on there. I found it when I was looking for stuff on DIY powerpanels, that thread is a bit of an epic.paul d wrote: I........ I'm just a casual lurker on there forum.
Stay low, Move fast, Trust no-one....
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- Pylonuk
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15 Nov 2020 10:07 - 15 Nov 2020 10:08 #14
by Pylonuk
Replied by Pylonuk on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
Paul
The moderator on the Barton site does not like thread drift though, he shut the Oliver Tigre thread because of minor thread drift.
Having said that most of info on that site is pretty accurate unlike RCM&E and ME.
Eric
I will be speaking with Chris in the week, we are working on a 21 sized speed project using a buggy enegine made by Force in Taiwan. If I just say 'Eric says hello' will he know who you are?
Regards
Baz
The moderator on the Barton site does not like thread drift though, he shut the Oliver Tigre thread because of minor thread drift.
Having said that most of info on that site is pretty accurate unlike RCM&E and ME.
Eric
I will be speaking with Chris in the week, we are working on a 21 sized speed project using a buggy enegine made by Force in Taiwan. If I just say 'Eric says hello' will he know who you are?
Regards
Baz
Last edit: 15 Nov 2020 10:08 by Pylonuk.
Thanks: paul d
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15 Nov 2020 11:00 #15
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Build and rigging accuracy along with techniques to ensure good results
If you get a blank look, remind him I'm in the Halton club!
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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