150 Scale VMC (Veron) rubber-powered Hurricane

This is my second model, the first being the VMC Messerschmidt BF109 which was given to me as a present, but the first time I have threaded a build. I had such a good experience building and flying the 109 that I have decided to up my game. So, my aims are to get better at building scale models, and to improve their flying performance. To that end, I would be grateful for any hints and tips from the rubber free-flight fraternity.

I chose the Hurricane because, although I really wanted to make a bi-plane - a Hawker Fury being my favourite - I live by the coast and am plagued by constant winds, which I thought the Hurricane would handle better. Also, I didn't know till I researched the model, that the Hurricane was essentially a Fury without the top wing!

Before I start, I just thought you'd like to see my new aero factory: the hayloft in the stable. Probably too hot in summer and too cold in winter, but for now, it'll do. I have half a dozen swallows flying around me when I'm up there, and they are a great inspiration - though I do have to cover my work at the end of a session...





Thus far, I have only done the wings. I have added diagonal spars for greater resistance to warping. When I made models as a child, I was forever plagued by warped wings so, although I realize this will add some weight and is not scale, I thought I'd try it out to see how it works. (I intend to drill out some holes to reduce the additional weight.) No sooner had I made the wings, when I read a thread on this forum about wash-in and wash-out. The VMC booklet for the BF109 recommends warping both wings with wash-out, whereas a member of this community (apologies, I forget who) says he always warps his wings (or at least one of them) with wash-in... On the basis that this is a learning curve, I'm going to stick with dead flat and use gurney flaps to trim. At the moment, I feel that that is more controllable for me.





By convoluted happenstance, I have ended up with two Hurricane kits. So, when I have made and flown this one, I thought I could use the second one to try out some of your suggestions and see how that one turns out in comparison...??

Very nice Crasharr but with the right care and control while drying they shouldn't be needed.Make sure you sand the spars to match rib contours... or even below them.

Many thanks, I've had sleepless nights wondering how to sand those diagonals... currently, I have sanded them according to the horizontal contours of the ribs. However, I'm aware that when the tissue goes on, they'll create an unsatisfactory shape to the tissue surface, so I'm also having a close look to see if I should sand them down, so that they are clear of the tissue. I've still not yet made up my mind. I think I'll finish the rest of the model and make a final decision as late as possible.

Lovely work so far sir.

as this one is an experiment i personally would just sand everything to match the wing shape and see how she flies.

Tony B

Hi Crashrr

Your model is looking good and I love your new workshop. Your plan to use gurney flaps to turn the model will work well but I would still think about adding some washout to the tips. Even with your diagonals added I'm sure you can add some by pinning the wing down with a 1/16" packing on Tailing edge at the tip when you come to the water shrinking the covering stage.

Wash out equal on both wings will add a bit of stability to your model. It reduces the angle of attack on the wing towards the tip and can stop the model tip stalling. This would be very useful on a low wing design with pointy wings like the Hurricane.

A forward CG position to the front of the recommended range will help with this too.

one tenor wrote: Very nice Crasharr but with the right care and control while drying they shouldn't be needed.Make sure you sand the spars to match rib contours... or even below them.

See my last 4 words. I would sand below rib level Why not make a test piece to see what you need to do .It might have been better to have put spars on bottom of wing sunk below rib lower edge . Just a thought. Experiment young man ! Experiment ! LOL. P.S,Try and get rid of the rubble or your painting could suffer Regards John O/T

For what it's worth, here's my two-penny-worth.

The Fury would be a much better bet in a wind, it has a lot more inherent stability than the Hurricane. Once you've launched the model, the wind doesn't matter. The model will just fly at it's natural speed in the moving airmass. The turbulence normally associated with windy conditions will have an effect by upsetting the model. The models natural stability will then be required to right the model in flight.

As far as the diagonals are concerned, I'd remove them. If you cover with a decent japanese tissue, water shrink and dope the result with the wing pinned flat, it shouldn't warp.

Personally, I don't like gurney flaps, they're ugly and detract from the scale authenticity of the full-size. I prefer to either warp the wing of the model or make the ailerons separate and hinge them with tin plate so that they can be moved for trimming.

Going back to the beginning, at your stage of building, I would try something like the Keil Kraft Piper Family Cruiser ( a high wing Monoplane with lots of inherent stability), which is pretty much guaranteed to fly and will fly well in a wind. If you want a bi-plane, then the Veron Tiger Moth is good. Mine has won the Masefield Trophy twice, flies for at least 50 seconds and has been flown successfully in winds up to 20kts.

Hear Hear Tony

I've done a little more to the Hurri - nearly finished the wings and the horizontal tailplane. I've realized that this plane is going to be a mule for testing out various new ideas and techniques. So, please keep the suggestions coming, though don't curse me if I follow my own plan. It's a learning process and, as I mentioned, by chance I have two of these kits, so keen to use this one to try out a few things, and then ditch or refine them on the second one.
I confess I am somewhat paranoid about warped wings, they've permanently indented themselves on my psyche... When building my Me109, I went to great pains to ensure there were no warps - doping both sides at the same time, pinning them down and leaving them for a couple of days to set hard, etc. For a while, my efforts paid off, but a few weeks have passed and, guess what, one wing has warped. To be fair, the wings are incredibly thin and fragile, so perhaps I used too much dope?
What is clear is that you have to have a whole plan at the start of the build process regarding type of tissue, strength/type of dope, structure, etc., so that the whole thing works together. Advanced modellers do this instinctively, but I'm at the start of that experimental process. I guess I installed those wing diagonals because I'm used to using full strength dope. It never occurred to me that I could thin it... I've been looking at Tom Hallam's (Maxfliart) wonderful videos on Youtube, and I see that some of his models have surprisingly wrinkly tissue. This has me wondering if he uses very weak dope (or some other sealant) so as not to stress his beautiful, lightly-constructed, wings? However, it's also possible, some of his ships go slightly wrinkly when he paints them... I will ask him and report back.
I've decided I'll keep the diagonals, because they are now done, and because I've never made a model strengthened with them before, so why not try it? However, I will be judiciously drilling out some balsa to lose some of the added weight. Again, I've never done this, so a good time to try it. I love the idea of break off wings held in place by magnets - as used on the Gannet - but that's a refinement for a later model.
I'm very keen to try out some high quality tissue to cover this Hurri, that's a whole area of expertise I didn't even know existed till a month or so ago. All suggestions most welcome on that one. (I'm going for a loose take on a Russian nightfighter colour scheme - there's too many Battle of Britain Hurris!)
Regarding gurney flaps, I agree with Tony that, ultimately, I'd prefer to make all control surfaces moveable. To that end, I've already adapted my build to have adjustable elevators and rudder (ailerons will still be gurney strips on this one - though I may yet get take the knife to it...). Having read many threads on this site, I am currently leaning towards using some drinks-can aluminium for the hinges.
Another area I aim to improve is fitting an adjustable thrust-bush. I played around with thrust angles on the Me with great success, however, it didn't take long for the balsa to wear out and lose the setting. Thus far the only adjustable bushes I've seen are the GizmoGeezer ones, so if any of you have any suggestions as to which may be appropriate for a 27" span Hurri, I would be most grateful to hear them. Indeed, any suggestions regarding the rubber set-up will be most carefully considered.

Time to go, I've just burned the bread...!

Many thanks,

Crashrr

Full strength dope on a small model like that is a definite no-no. Assuming that the tissue has responded OK to initial water shrinking (damp, not soaked or even better just steamed if possible) you should only need a coat of very thin shrinking dope - thinned to the consistency of water. If you intend/need to fly in damp conditions a second coat is advisable, but the two should be enough. Even better - but more of a fiddle - is to use banana oil for the second coat, again well thinned. Banana oil is better at resisting damp conditions than acetate or nitrate dope (I've never used butyrate, so I don't know how that compares)
On our traditional structures tissue (or for that matter silk or nylon for bigger models) is a stressed skin which adds rigidity to the structure, but it is a bit of a balancing act - to much shrinkage to emphasise the 'stressed skin' can crush the internal structure - S shaped ribs, etc.
Mike

Good thoughts with separate elevators and rudder. Yes Ali drinks can hinges are good on small models, for larger I would use the coated steel ? lids you get on ring pull food cans like tinned tomatoes and you don't have to sand the paint of these ones. Think Ali can will work on your model size but maybe do 3 per side. If they are not strong enough the elevators will move every time it lands which is path to madness

The best way to avoid warps that I have found is to cover with good Esaki Tissue ( which just easier to use to get a good finish) water shrink and then dope with Non-Shrinking Dope at about 30/70 to cellulose thinners. Using shrinking dope on such small and thin structures you just have to look at it and it warps.

Not sure a bout adjustable nose bushes as I'm not really a rubber man but I thought the nose button was permanently fixed to the nose block and thrust adjustments were applied by adding packing between the nose block and the fuselage. I'm sure more knowledgeable rubber flyers will correct me if thats not right.

If you are looking for Esaki Tissue and thrust washers try SAMS , Flitehook or Free Flight Supplies

Build the model however you like Crasher, it's your model after all!

A very effective adjustable thrust button is available from Derek Knight, either through his web site or from SAMS Models:

www.kpaero.com/ProductReport.aspx?Category2=prop%20button

www.samsmodels.com/index.php

Many thanks for all the replies. I am confident that with your suggestions my modelling is going to take a big step up.

And in that vein, since this is supposed to be a learning exercise, I have decided to push myself and install moveable ailerons, too. I didn't have the guts to make full-size ones, figuring that one inter-rib bay should provide enough trimming airflow.



Will try to do some fuselage tonight.

Keep up the good work - looking nice!
Mike

Crashrr I shall watch this build and the comments with interest as I have this kit to build.