Electric set up for multimotor model

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11 Dec 2012 23:45 - 12 Dec 2012 00:00 #1 by Dean M
Electric set up for multimotor model was created by Dean M
Hello can any electric experts help?

Just having a look at the motor set up for my TN B-17 just wanted to make sure I am correct.

My plan is to use 2 lipos one for the inboard motors and one for outboards. is this ok? Being 72" thought lipo for each motor may be a bit tight and heavy?

The model should weigh 7lbs when finished according to TN website I am going safe and saying 8lbs

sooooooo...........

going on 100 watts per pound

100 x 8 = 800 4 engines so.... 200 watts each motor. is that correct?


From what I have read a 3s lipo gives 10v under load?

Amps = Watts / Volts

200 watts / 10 volts = 20A

20% spare capacity for the correct ESC

so a 25 amp esc minimum for each motor.


For an 8 minute flight at 70% throttle ( 70% throttle halves the full throttle current)
which is 10 amps per motor, as I want to use one lipo per two motors it will be 20 amps at 70% throttle. Is this correct?

capacity of = time x current = 8 x 20 = 2.6667
battery needed 60 60


so a 3s lipo 2700 mah for an 8 minute flight

Is this correct???????

sorry it is a bit long winded and confusing :silly: :silly: :silly:

Dean

Somebody called me 'pretentious' the other day.

I nearly choked on my latte.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 00:00 by Dean M.

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12 Dec 2012 00:08 #2 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
One battery for inboards, one for outboards is ok.
You need a speedo for EACH motor = 4 speedos. (so you'll need three Y leads to connect them all to the motor/throttle plughole in the rx. Disconnect three of the four RED wires, or you will have four bec's fighting! Keep the yellow and black connected. black is common return, yellow is the data signal for the speedos. Don't be too mean with the current rating, bigger is better, up to 50% more than the motor demands.
100 watts - pound is ok.
Lipo's - more S = more volts. The on-load volts depends on the amps being drawn, and as you are having two motors on each lipo, that's twice the current.
The current drawn depends on the prop diameter and pitch, so you need a WATTMETER to see what is going on! Don't guesstimate, you will be wrong, and could fry a motor or speedo.
The kva number on a motor tells how fast it will turn for each volt of supply. (ie a 10 kva motor will turn ten times a minute for 1 volt of supply, not that you could buy one that slow!)

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: The Beard, Dean M

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12 Dec 2012 15:10 - 12 Dec 2012 15:20 #3 by Dean M
Replied by Dean M on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Thanks Eric
Not quite got it right have I. :unsure:
There is a recommended set up on 4max website but I did want to work it out myself, I am one of those people who can't just accept things I have to know why and how :cheer: and they use one 3s 4500mah 30c lipo in there set up, I really want to use two lipos.

Can I roughly work out what lipos I would need to give me a decent flight? Without burning motors or esc out or knackering the lipos?

Somebody called me 'pretentious' the other day.

I nearly choked on my latte.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 15:20 by .

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12 Dec 2012 17:31 - 12 Dec 2012 17:33 #4 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Dean
Just a point.
It really doesn't make any significant difference to the weight whether you use one big LiPo, 2 medium or 4 small ones if they have the same total mAh capacity.
e.g.
4x1000 mAh 3s gives exactly the same output a 1x4000mAh 3s.

If the original used 1x4500mAh 3s then 2x 2200 3s would be same weight and give virtually the same performance and duration with the same motors and props.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 17:33 by Quorneng.

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12 Dec 2012 20:45 - 12 Dec 2012 20:45 #5 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
True, Quorneng, but it helps the model's flying behaviour if the mass can be kept in the centre. Four lipos would require four lot of wires, or putting the lipos in the nacelles, which is moving the mass outboard, and has the effect of slowing down roll response.

Dean
Because you are juggling four variables, you cannot guesstimate the duration. You need to know how many amps the motor is pulling, and that depends on the pitch and diameter of the prop. (as well as the brand!). When you know that, you can look at the lipo capacity, and get an idea of how long it will deliver that many amps.
Don't forget that the receiver, the speedo, and the servos all use a bit of that power, albeit a small amount, (unless you have Klippy's digital servos!), and that is being taken from the lipo that has the bec connected to the rx, so that one will fade first. (the other three speedos are fed from the lipo connected to it)
THEN you can mathematically say - this combi will give me x minutes. But as we never, ever run lipos to the death, reduce that figure by 25%. (or thereabouts)

Don't forget how electric motors work, they see a number of volts, and decide they have to go at x rpm's, so suck more and more amps until they do. (or the windings, the speedo or the lipo gives up!) No matter what you do, the motor will not go faster per volt than it is designed for, and if you load it up with a monster prop, it will bust itself trying to spin it at the same speed.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 20:45 by Eric. Reason: typo

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12 Dec 2012 23:24 #6 by Dean M
Replied by Dean M on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Thanks Quorneng and Eric,
From further research I have found one person using two 3s 3300mah and another using two 3s 3700mah. One LiPo powering in boards and one for outboards.
I will be coming back to this in the new year when I make a start on the B-17 and have some pennies to buy the motors and ESC so will need a shove in the right direction.

Dean

Somebody called me 'pretentious' the other day.

I nearly choked on my latte.

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12 Dec 2012 23:45 - 12 Dec 2012 23:45 #7 by THE BLACKBIRD
Replied by THE BLACKBIRD on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
I have the same B17 in my shed Dean never did finnish it, i used what TN stated on the plan brushed motors with gear boxes, i glassed mine and it came out heavy, it was my first build after 40 years away from the hobby so any help i can give you just shout, i took some pics of the build





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Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 23:45 by THE BLACKBIRD.
Thanks: Dean M

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13 Dec 2012 00:12 #8 by Dean M
Replied by Dean M on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
That brilliant blackbird!!!
Exactly what I need someone who has built one to keep me on the right track.
Would be really handy if I could see your build photos.
Thank you
Dean

Somebody called me 'pretentious' the other day.

I nearly choked on my latte.

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13 Dec 2012 00:46 #9 by The Beard
Replied by The Beard on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Will it ever fly BB

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13 Dec 2012 01:04 #10 by THE BLACKBIRD
Replied by THE BLACKBIRD on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
One day i hope it will lumber off the ground, the problem i have with it apart from the wieght is he fact that when people cleaned my villa out in the north a lot of stuff went missing including the esc's for this, the motors only have 2 wires to it not 3
I can post the pics on here but i dont want to take anything away from your build thread maybe i could email them up to you.
Thanks: Dean M

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13 Dec 2012 02:20 #11 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Eric
If say the 4 LiPo were in the same place as one big one, does it significantly alter the amount of wiring?

The full fuel load of a B17 was 1700gallons or 11000 lbs, all in the wings, so maybe spreading the LiPos out would give it more realistic scale handling! ;)

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13 Dec 2012 03:06 #12 by Dean M
Replied by Dean M on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model

THE BLACKBIRD wrote: One day i hope it will lumber off the ground, the problem i have with it apart from the wieght is he fact that when people cleaned my villa out in the north a lot of stuff went missing including the esc's for this, the motors only have 2 wires to it not 3
I can post the pics on here but i dont want to take anything away from your build thread maybe i could email them up to you.


Would be great if you could email me your build photos I will send you a PM with my email address. thank you they will help me out so much. B) B) B)

Did you make a hatch for battery access? I have saw one that had a removable cockpit area.

Dean

Somebody called me 'pretentious' the other day.

I nearly choked on my latte.

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13 Dec 2012 06:00 #13 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Quorneng - you could probably get away with a common negative from each side, but you'd need separate positive wires to each speedo, if you put those in the nacelles. The weight wouldn't be huge, but it's going to be a heavy model to start with, and every bit of weight saved is a bit more lift available.
If you keep the lipo - speedo wires short, with the speedos in the fuz as well, then you have six wires down each wing, plus ailerons, etc.
If you are going to have a stack of four lipos in the fuz, it's simpler - physically to have two bigger ones. (There are also less connectors to get crossed over!)

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2012 06:05 #14 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
BB, as you have lost the two-wire speedos, you'd be better off scrapping the can motors, and fitting brushless ones, which are much more powerful for the same can size.
It is doubtful whether you could even FIND four matched two-wire speedos, now!

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2012 06:26 - 13 Dec 2012 06:32 #15 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Re: Electric set up for multimotor model
Still available on Ebay
Link
Last edit: 13 Dec 2012 06:32 by Quorneng.

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