Helicopter mess up
- Klipkopwildlife
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16 Jun 2020 10:10 #1
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Helicopter mess up was created by Klipkopwildlife
My work space got moved!
Mary got fed up with walking past my old work space to the front door!
I now can't find anything! Worst still a number of old transmitters got sent to the SPCA but she kept the ones she thought were relevant!
This helicopter has never been flown.
Port and starboard views, it's obviously 35meg and its receiver obviously has 3 small ESCs in it for the can motors. Does anyone have any idea of how to hook it up to a mainstream transmitter (I have a variety) The TXs that were saved are no match at all. I seem to remember the correct TX having some kind of rotating knob on the face for left/right trim.
Bin it is also an option but it goes very much against the grain to bin something that's never flown.
I now can't find anything! Worst still a number of old transmitters got sent to the SPCA but she kept the ones she thought were relevant!
Port and starboard views, it's obviously 35meg and its receiver obviously has 3 small ESCs in it for the can motors. Does anyone have any idea of how to hook it up to a mainstream transmitter (I have a variety) The TXs that were saved are no match at all. I seem to remember the correct TX having some kind of rotating knob on the face for left/right trim.
Bin it is also an option but it goes very much against the grain to bin something that's never flown.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: crash happy
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- Quorneng
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16 Jun 2020 12:30 #2
by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Helicopter mess up
Klippy
Does it have a gyro?
Not any sort of helicopter expert but with 3 motors, thus 3 channels, I would have thought it was nothing a 'computer' Tx can't manage.
Obviously throttle on the two main motors and then limited differential power on the rudder channel. The tail rotor is the elevator but I suspect it would also be mixed to the throttle so it always generated some thrust.
Exactly what the mix ratios should be is an open question.
My guess would be no more than 10% differential mix on the main motors for yaw.
Tail rotor 70% mixed with the throttle with 25% on the elevator.
The real question is whether you would stand any chance of getting it to fly in a controllable manner before you damaged it irretrievably but if the alternative is to bin it you have nothing to loose trying.
Does it have a gyro?
Not any sort of helicopter expert but with 3 motors, thus 3 channels, I would have thought it was nothing a 'computer' Tx can't manage.
Obviously throttle on the two main motors and then limited differential power on the rudder channel. The tail rotor is the elevator but I suspect it would also be mixed to the throttle so it always generated some thrust.
Exactly what the mix ratios should be is an open question.
My guess would be no more than 10% differential mix on the main motors for yaw.
Tail rotor 70% mixed with the throttle with 25% on the elevator.
The real question is whether you would stand any chance of getting it to fly in a controllable manner before you damaged it irretrievably but if the alternative is to bin it you have nothing to loose trying.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife
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- Eric
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16 Jun 2020 18:10 - 16 Jun 2020 18:12 #3
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Helicopter mess up
Ah, those old contra-rotor toys,
Are you sure it is on 35, and not 27? (or some other weird illegal band?) The antenna is about the same length for both.
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You will find that the tail rotor is controlled by the elevator stick, for pitch control. (Forward stick lifts the tail for forward fRight) ((that's not a typo!))
Yaw will be on the rudder stick, as you'd expect, but it works by varying the speed of one of the rotors, so you get a torque turn.
The throttle controls the speed of both rotors together - and therefore the height.
When trimmed out, in still air, it will just sit there doing nothing. Try to get that set up before you start hitting the walls with it!
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It will be a strictly indoors or flat calm outdoors model - any breeze, and it will just blow away!
They are fairly bounceable, but once you break it, if you can't repair it, you'll be lucky to find any spares!
Are you sure it is on 35, and not 27? (or some other weird illegal band?) The antenna is about the same length for both.
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You will find that the tail rotor is controlled by the elevator stick, for pitch control. (Forward stick lifts the tail for forward fRight) ((that's not a typo!))
Yaw will be on the rudder stick, as you'd expect, but it works by varying the speed of one of the rotors, so you get a torque turn.
The throttle controls the speed of both rotors together - and therefore the height.
When trimmed out, in still air, it will just sit there doing nothing. Try to get that set up before you start hitting the walls with it!
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It will be a strictly indoors or flat calm outdoors model - any breeze, and it will just blow away!
They are fairly bounceable, but once you break it, if you can't repair it, you'll be lucky to find any spares!
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 16 Jun 2020 18:12 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife
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- Klipkopwildlife
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16 Jun 2020 18:24 #4
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Helicopter mess up
Thanks Simon, I haven't looked as yet, it would require major dismantling but I don't think there's a gyro.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
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16 Jun 2020 18:28 #5
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Helicopter mess up
Exactly right Eric, it's on 27Mhz, I've found a label under the tail. I'm wondering if the receiver can be back engineered, ie, remove the 27meg + servo decoding and replace the whole lot with 35meg, using just the 3 ESC to drive the motors.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
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- Eric
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16 Jun 2020 22:57 - 16 Jun 2020 23:02 #6
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Helicopter mess up
I forgot to add, until I saw Simon's comment -
There will be no 3 axis gyro - due to the 'design'?? they are self-stabilizing, with the very high centre of lift vs mass - like a pendulum.
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I can't say if it can be back-engineered to three esc's and a 35 Mhz rx, as the motor controls are built-in to the rx, and there may not be room - and maybe lifting capacity! - - assuming you can FIND three 3v esc's!
Is it worth the effort, other than a self-satisfying challenge?
There will be no 3 axis gyro - due to the 'design'?? they are self-stabilizing, with the very high centre of lift vs mass - like a pendulum.
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I can't say if it can be back-engineered to three esc's and a 35 Mhz rx, as the motor controls are built-in to the rx, and there may not be room - and maybe lifting capacity! - - assuming you can FIND three 3v esc's!
Is it worth the effort, other than a self-satisfying challenge?
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 16 Jun 2020 23:02 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife
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- Klipkopwildlife
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17 Jun 2020 09:01 #7
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Helicopter mess up
Thanks for the caveat Eric, I was thinking along the lines of using the existing board, removing the 27meg stuff (it's heavier than the 2.4gig stuff we use today) and using an sbus RX with a 4 channel decoder (the XM receiver and decoder have already been discussed on this site) and wiring the pwm signals to the inputs of the remaining ESCs.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Flytilbroke
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- Quorneng
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17 Jun 2020 11:10 #8
by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Helicopter mess up
Doing the electronics is one way but my own choice would be just to retain the motors and simply use 3 brushed ESCs and a micro 2.4 rx.
I am not sure pendulum stability is the whole story, I suspect the flybar of the top rotor has something to do with it as well.
I am not sure pendulum stability is the whole story, I suspect the flybar of the top rotor has something to do with it as well.
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- Klipkopwildlife
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17 Jun 2020 17:23 #9
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Helicopter mess up
Hmm, not going to happen Simon, brushed ESCs are about as common as Rocking horse manure and I don't think these motors will draw much more than about 2amps apiece. I may just strip it for parts that I will probably never use.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Quorneng
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- Eric
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18 Jun 2020 11:25 #10
by Eric
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Replied by Eric on topic Helicopter mess up
Borrowed a kiddies toy one (that I had previously repaired - tree damage!) - to double-check.
The flybar leads the top rotor by about 40' - and alters the pitch of the top blades, which are fixed together, such that as one goes pos, the other goes neg.
So the flybar acts like a flywheel, countering any movement of the entire heli, and restores it to stability when pitch stops over-riding it.
The lower rotor is fixed pitch, with limited tilt fore/aft and port/starboard, on this sample, which does NOT have a tail rotor in either plane, just a fixed vertical fin on a short boom. (E-flight Blade mcx).
The flybar leads the top rotor by about 40' - and alters the pitch of the top blades, which are fixed together, such that as one goes pos, the other goes neg.
So the flybar acts like a flywheel, countering any movement of the entire heli, and restores it to stability when pitch stops over-riding it.
The lower rotor is fixed pitch, with limited tilt fore/aft and port/starboard, on this sample, which does NOT have a tail rotor in either plane, just a fixed vertical fin on a short boom. (E-flight Blade mcx).
if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Flytilbroke
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- Klipkopwildlife
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18 Jun 2020 17:33 #11
by Klipkopwildlife
Do it now, you may never get another chance
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Helicopter mess up
Good one Eric, gives me something to go on.
Do it now, you may never get another chance
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- Quorneng
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18 Jun 2020 21:52 #12
by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Helicopter mess up
If my Science Museum "Space ball" is anything to go by which uses the same rotor system but with only one motor geared to both props so no yaw control, 'stability' is not wonderful.
It does have a proximity sensor on the throttle circuit so it theory it should hover automatically a set distance above any flat surface. It does try but if it bumps into anything it sets off the 'Iv'e crashed so cut the power' feature.
A case of clever but dumb electronics and its supposed to be an educational toy.
It does have a proximity sensor on the throttle circuit so it theory it should hover automatically a set distance above any flat surface. It does try but if it bumps into anything it sets off the 'Iv'e crashed so cut the power' feature.
A case of clever but dumb electronics and its supposed to be an educational toy.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife
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