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Fi 103 - the other V weapon

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11 Feb 2013 20:07 - 11 Feb 2013 20:14 #1 by Quorneng
Fi 103 - the other V weapon was created by Quorneng
For the moment I have put the winged V2 on hold.
To be a real challenge it ought to have a true vertical capability and that would not be possible without contra rotating propellers. Himax do a nice range of suitable motors but at a severe price - their smallest is $112! :(

So its into the "box of frogs" again - an EDF V2!

Its been done before but most, if not all, have had to compromise the scale of the pulse jet to do it. The duct is just too small a diameter for the necessary size of fan.

Using the super light Depron techniques of the Natter it should be possible to build a scale V2 light enough to use a 55mm EDF in a scale pulse jet duct.

With a 55mm ID duct the V2 is quite big, 62" long and 41" span. To give a reasonable margin of performance it should have close to 1:1 thrust to weight which means it has to weigh not much more than 16oz with a 3s or 24oz with 4.
The duct itself is relatively long, necessary in a pulse jet, but just thrust absorbing to an EDF! :(

I would like to think it can get away with just scale tail control surfaces acting as elevons but I suspect ailerons will be required to achieve a practical degree of manoeuvrability.

First the Argus AS 109 pulse jet.

29" long
With the EDF mounted right at the front it allows a full bell mouth for maximum static thrust and brings the EDF forward to ease the CofG issue.

A plastic gutter down pipe is just the right size as a building plug! :)
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Last edit: 11 Feb 2013 20:14 by Quorneng.
Thanks: Eric, THE BLACKBIRD, Sarah-Jane Smith

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11 Feb 2013 20:19 #2 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Spot the typo! Fi 103 was a manned V1.
The Fieseler Fi 103R, code-named Reichenberg, was a late-World War II German manned version of the V-1 flying bomb (more correctly known as the Fieseler Fi 103) produced for attacks in which the pilot was likely to be killed, or at best to parachute down at the attack site, which were to be carried out by the "Leonidas Squadron", Group V of the Luftwaffe's Kampfgeschwader 200.

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11 Feb 2013 23:01 #3 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Eric
According to Wikipedia Fi 103 was the Reichsluftfahrtministerium airframe number for the standard V1.

The Fi 103 R was the manned version.

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11 Feb 2013 23:07 #4 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
You misunderstand - you said you would build a v2 pulse jet (edf). The V1 was the pulse jet!

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12 Feb 2013 06:32 #5 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Oops!

I did actually contemplate a V2 EDF with folding cheat doors in the nose but thought better of it. ;)

The first Depron planks go on the Argus duct.

The plug is actually a cardboard drawing tube covered in sticky backed plastic.

That duct looks ever so long for its diameter!
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Thanks: The Beard, Sarah-Jane Smith

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12 Feb 2013 14:56 #6 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
this is handy as i will need to build on of these to go under the heinkel he111 drop plane i have started somewhere.
keep going. :cheer:

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14 Feb 2013 19:41 #7 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
The inner duct complete and off the plug for the first time with the EDF located at the front.

The formers are 'built up' using 3mm sq hoops.
The outer skin will be 2mm Depron planking.
The complete EDF Argus pulse jet should weigh about 4oz.


I have been doing a bit of research and I was relived to find the US copy of the V-1, the JB-2, was built in some numbers (1000) and although never used in combat was painted in bright colours during testing rather than the green and pale blue 'camouflage' of the German one!
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Thanks: Ex-Member, THE BLACKBIRD, Sarah-Jane Smith

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14 Feb 2013 20:00 #8 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Interesting that you put the fan at the front. All the edf's I've seen keep the tail-pipe as short as possible, to minimise drag losses. It doesn't seem to matter so much how long the front is, perhaps it's the ram-air effect?

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14 Feb 2013 22:32 #9 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Eric
The fan went at the front for two reasons
1. The bell mouth on the fan is not removable so would either have to have been cut off or the tail pipe made larger to accommodate it.
2. The EDF is relatively heavy and the end of the tail pipe is one a heck of a long way back! :ohmy:

16oz thrust is claimed on a 3s. As soon as the duct is complete I shall have to find out how much is lost.

Fortunately the V-1 is aerodynamically quite efficient with a reasonable wing area so I hopefully I can afford to lose quite a bit and still fly.

I suppose if the worst comes to the worst I could always put wings and a tail on the jet and fly that! :woohoo:

The Yanks did more or less do just that with the B-10.

"V-1 meets Me163".
The whole body was apparently a magnesium alloy casting with integral explosive. Presumably it was intended as a fire bomb!
Just one fight in 1945.
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Thanks: Eric, Ex-Member, Sarah-Jane Smith

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15 Feb 2013 07:35 #10 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
The outer skin progresses.

There are 32 planks but unlike the parallel centre duct each has to be shaped to fit! :(

The front duct support and the fin have to be added then the duct can be finish painted. A sort of metallic grey (any paint would quickly burn off) and matt back inside!
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Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Dean M, Ex-Member, THE BLACKBIRD, Sarah-Jane Smith

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15 Feb 2013 21:58 #11 by Sarah-Jane Smith
Replied by Sarah-Jane Smith on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
wow, beautifully neat Simon !!! :) :)

I wish I was a glow worm, a glow worm's never glum.
Cos how can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum?!

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16 Feb 2013 05:11 #12 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
The duct complete.

The Balsa/Depron/Balsa spar sticking out will be incorporated into the forward mount to support the relatively heavy EDF unit.
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Thanks: Eric, Ex-Member, THE BLACKBIRD, Sarah-Jane Smith

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16 Feb 2013 05:32 #13 by Grumpy42
Replied by Grumpy42 on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
As every one knows I'm not an admirer of electric models but I do admire the work Quorneng does. It's inspirational to any scratch builder. Well done mate.

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16 Feb 2013 21:23 #14 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Now, if you painted the combustion chamber area a dull orange-red....

Looks good so far.

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17 Feb 2013 04:05 #15 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Fi 103 - the other V weapon
Time to see it it all holds together.
The test power lash-up.

60A ESC and a big 3s. Not the best balanced fan in the world but it shoothed out nicely at high revs.

I wondered how to measure the thrust with nothing to fix to.
A very simple solution. Strap steel plates to the tail pipe until it would just hover at full power when held vertically

At an all up of 14oz it would still just rise up through my hands at full power.

If I can keep the complete V-1 to 16oz it should fly well but the duration will be limited to just a few minutes.
We shall see
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Thanks: Dean M, THE BLACKBIRD, Sarah-Jane Smith

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