Aggregate A9 (A4b)

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05 Dec 2015 13:09 #31 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Now that looks really good sir.

smashing work.
bet it will be a handful to fly though. :P

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05 Dec 2015 15:16 #32 by Steamup
Replied by Steamup on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Looks great love to see some video of it in action :woohoo:

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05 Dec 2015 16:11 #33 by Mowerman
Replied by Mowerman on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Amazing, a work of art.

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05 Dec 2015 19:47 #34 by one tenor
Replied by one tenor on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
JAP " SHINDIN" next maybe ?

Anything will fly given enough power

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05 Dec 2015 23:18 #35 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Mounted the first servo in the fin..

The servo wire runs down inside the fin into the fuselage.
I am planning to use 2 stand alone 'mixers'. One each for the rudderons and elevons but with their 'aileron' inputs linked together with a Y lead so there will only be the normal aileron, elevator and rudder Rx connections.
I have found that mixers do a better job at combined full deflection than the Tx mixing function.
In addition it will mean that if and when a 'gyro' Rx is fitted it will only need its normal A/E/R outputs.

Next? I doubt there will be!
Perhaps this video gives some indication of the problem I have with any more planes. :woohoo:
Attachments:
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, old fart

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06 Dec 2015 12:03 #36 by Mowerman
Replied by Mowerman on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Too many planes ?
Your problem is that you are too good a pilot., most of us keep the number of models down by crashing more often (at least I do)

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06 Dec 2015 12:27 #37 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Mowerman
Not so much a good pilot but rather too much "build/crash/repair". ;)
About half those planes have been significantly crashed and some more than once! :P :P
Thanks: Ex-Member

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07 Dec 2015 11:57 #38 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Been agonising over the control surfaces for a couple of days.
The scale overhung and counterbalanced surfaces would be very prone to damage in a model plane.

And in any case the bottom rudder would have to be cut back to allow a belly landing.
So on balance I have decided to cut them all back.

It reduces the area by nearly 40% but they still look quite adequate, after all it never going to be an acrobatic plane!
Indeed the original shape would appear to rather unsuitable for super sonic flight.
Attachments:
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, THE BLACKBIRD, old fart, boz

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07 Dec 2015 15:51 #39 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Why do you say unsuitable for super sonic flight, Q? it looks fine to me. ;) ;)

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07 Dec 2015 17:07 - 07 Dec 2015 17:07 #40 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
I would have thought that the square edge of the substantial aerodynamic counter balance would create problems from the sonic shock waves it would generate.
The US Redstone missile (a V-2 follow on by Von Braun) did use aerodynamically balanced 'rudders' but they were rather smaller and of a super sonic 'wedge' section.
Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 17:07 by Quorneng.

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07 Dec 2015 18:43 #41 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
I see where you're coming from, now Q, and you may be right. I looked at it slightly differently in that the tail would be behind most of the shockwaves generated by the aircraft, which means that the air would be travelling a lot slower - the speed of the air reduces as it flows through the shockwave, which is how jet engines operating at supersonic speeds reduce the airflow to subsonic before it hits the compressor.

Looking at the shockwave generation points along the fuselage and wing, you could safely assume that the air reaching the tail was subsonic, or very close to it.

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07 Dec 2015 23:17 #42 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Not knowing a great deal (or next to nothing!) about the weapon - as it was semi-ballistic, and I believe left the atmosphere at apogee, when the fins and wings would be useless anyway, perhaps, after motor burn-out, the control surfaces were discarded?

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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08 Dec 2015 00:26 #43 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Apparently from its apogee the V-2 entered the thicker atmosphere at over 2000 mph.
In the normal V2 the rudders were inset into the trailing edge of the fins so would have been protected.
It is hard to believe that the huge A4b's control surfaces would have survived at such speeds.
Given that the only successful(?) launch ended in airframe failure I suppose we will never know!

The object of the A4b was to trade speed for distance and some of this would have occurred in super sonic flight although it would have fairly quickly slowed to subsonic.
Whilst this in theory made it possible to intercept it was judged still to be beyond the capabilities of air defence at the time.
I have not found any reference as to how the control system was modified to allow for a non ballistic flight path.

On with the A4b
The control surfaces will be hinged at each end using home made acetate pin (literally!) hinges.

The pin is driven into the balsa leading edge although the excess pin length is cut off before fitting.

The outer pin hinge.

How well they will contain the EDF torque is anybodies guess!
Attachments:
Thanks: Eric, Klipkopwildlife, Ex-Member, THE BLACKBIRD

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08 Dec 2015 05:51 #44 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
Nice job Q! I do like the hinges, I used a similar idea some years ago and they work well, but I didn't think of using acetate.

Continuing the supersonic debate, with a step change in centre of pressure when supersonic, control effectiveness is much reduced over that for subsonic flight and control forces are much higher. Therefore, greater elevator movement/area is required. It's why Miles invented the all flying tailplane, and also why the Americans used it on the X1. I suspect the Germans had realised that with the A4b, which may be why they increased the tailplane area, and particularly, the aerodynamic balance. And from your analysis, Q, it may also be why it crashed!

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08 Dec 2015 11:00 - 08 Dec 2015 11:01 #45 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Aggregate A9 (A4b)
The first pair (rudderons) connected up and working.

And it is using 35 meg to make sure it functions without any clever tx features. ;)
Last edit: 08 Dec 2015 11:01 by Quorneng.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Ex-Member, THE BLACKBIRD

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