Big Dragon 3

More
13 Aug 2024 07:48 #16 by jon.in.swansea
Replied by jon.in.swansea on topic Big Dragon 3
So much can happen in those first few seconds. Much bigger battery to get used to during the launch.  Perhaps a tweak to the front band hook? 

The wing-tip-to-ground issue always made me wonder about all those models with the wing bolted rather than banded.

I have wondered how tight bands should be. Over tight tends to mark the foam even with protectors in place. I often pick up those bigger bands left by the postman in the street.  Only trouble with those is they seem to have a short half-life and go brittle after a few months. And not tight enough and the wing drifts away from its ideal location.

A few times I resorted to using a bit of roughed up bike inner tube to act as a friction pad to help a banded wing keep from drifting. Or designing the fuse to have a cut-out for the wing to rest in - still allowing emergency movement. The down side is that it takes away the option to shift the wing forwards or backwards a few mm to test for a better location.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2024 09:04 - 13 Aug 2024 09:07 #17 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Big Dragon 3
Wing band tension. It depends on what kind of flying you intend to do.
For a low-time student, as many bands as you can get on, as tight as you can get them, so the wing cannot move during the probable wild gyrations and 25G pull-ups!
For an initial test-glide with lightweight construction, just enough to hold the wing in place when you gently bounce it by the wings, so a 'chinese' arrival will knock the wing off without breaking anything.
Modern elastic bands are rubbish. I use big heavy ones on the Phoenix trainer, and I might get two weekends out of them before they start to fail. I had one fail in between flights, the other week. The model was on the ground, and I was sitting under my sunbrella, when I heard a rattling noise. When I looked, one of the six 1cm x 20cm bands (unstretched length) had let go.
The white silicon? ones are worse. after a couple of stretches, they wrinkle up and then snap.
Once the flier is competent, and the model is trimmed and good, wing bolts are better, because they are more positive in location, but not forgiving if the ground jumps up and hits the model!

Whatever bands you use, ultra-violet (sunlight) degrades them rapidly.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 13 Aug 2024 09:07 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Quorneng, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Klipkopwildlife
  • Klipkopwildlife's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • I'm supposed to be retired!
More
13 Aug 2024 14:30 #18 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Big Dragon 3
Heat also degrades them, about two years tops, and that's stored inside!
Nylon securing screws work really well, and break if you over do it.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Quorneng

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Quorneng
  • Quorneng's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Forum Master
  • Forum Master
More
13 Aug 2024 16:28 - 13 Aug 2024 16:40 #19 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Big Dragon 3
The Big Dragon 3 now fully repaired.
 
Only one band holing the wing on as it ain't going to fly - its raining!
I have increased the incidence by adding 2mm permanent packing under the leading edge of the wing.
The other concern is the very low pitch of its 11x3.8 SF prop. Loads of thrust but I fear it will fall away quite quickly if the plane flies at all fast.
By comparison the 13% lighter Big Dragon 2 managed very well with a 10x3.8 SF prop. It uses a slightly less powerful motor.

At the same time as I crashed the Big Dragon two says ago I did fly the super light Depron DH Sea Vixen.
 
It uses a pair of the early version AEO 40mm EDFs which use very high kV motors that are only rated for 2s so it uses a 2200 mAh 2s.   Most definitely not a normal battery for a twin EDF. It flies pretty well but with the EDFs mounted right at the tail pipe it does make some serious noise.
 
The full size was not noted for being quiet either.
   
 
Attachments:
Last edit: 13 Aug 2024 16:40 by Quorneng.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Flytilbroke, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2024 22:35 #20 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Big Dragon 3
Yes - they were rather loud! Especially at 0405, when we were trying to sleep after doing the 'middle' watch (midnight to 4am).
I forget the exact words I used, but in my book "Sea Story" (cheeky plug) I described it along the lines of  -
screeeeEEEEEWHUMPBZZZZzzzzz
as the arrester wire spooled out.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Flytilbroke

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Quorneng
  • Quorneng's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Forum Master
  • Forum Master
More
15 Aug 2024 23:46 #21 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Big Dragon 3
The Big Dragon 3 has had a bit of a modification apart from the wing incidence packing. The V tail has been modified from a 90 degree included angle to 110 degrees.
 
This change brings it into line with the V tail on Big Dragon 2. As both the wing and tail plane are the same size on both it seemed logical to make the V the same particularly as 2 flies so well.
Could be sunny with quite gentle winds tomorrow if the forecast is right so maybe I will try again..    
 
Attachments:
Thanks: Eric, Flytilbroke, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Aug 2024 07:25 #22 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Big Dragon 3
Mid August - and it was that cold last night that my heating turned itself on! 

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Flytilbroke, Quorneng

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Flytilbroke
  • Flytilbroke's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Not Tired, long retired "Bob"
More
16 Aug 2024 09:07 #23 by Flytilbroke
Replied by Flytilbroke on topic Big Dragon 3
It has been like that since August started, in the West Highlands.

Have a nice Day, unless I don't like you.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Quorneng
  • Quorneng's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Forum Master
  • Forum Master
More
18 Aug 2024 19:19 #24 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Big Dragon 3
As I stated in "Been flying" the 11x3.8 prop on the Big Dragon 3 is rather too fine. I have ordered an 11x6 E prop although I would prefer a "slow fly" type but there are none to be found at 11" so I thought I might try printing one.
I found two on Thingyverse neither are 11" so they have to be scaled up in CURA.
Top in the picture is an E prop. Below is a SF thin type..
 
The E prop was printed flat on the bed which means hours of sanding as the support leaves marks all over blade undersides. The E prop was printed on edge so only the blade lower  edges were effected by the support structure. Both props took over 2 hours to print and have been sprayed Peugeot metallic blue.
I have tried the E prop and it is horridly inefficient producing less than half the thrust of the commercial 11x3.8. In fact it was this test that persuaded me to print the SF prop. Not yet tested as the paint is still wet!. It is supposed to have a pitch of 4.5 but by eye it looks at least as fine as the commercial 3.8.  I scaled x,y and Z by the same factor so the pitch will remain the same, shouldn't it? 
Could be next week before the commercial 11x6 E prop arrives.
Attachments:
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Flytilbroke, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
19 Aug 2024 06:30 #25 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Big Dragon 3
I have some APC 10 x 6 e props, if that helps?

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Quorneng
  • Quorneng's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Forum Master
  • Forum Master
More
19 Aug 2024 14:47 #26 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Big Dragon 3
Thanks Eric but I already have a 10x6 e prop.
I have printed another 11x4.5 SF but this time got clever to keep the hub thin enough to fit the prop adapter.
Just finished the print.
 
The "as printed" finish on the blades is quite good.
 
Still need some "tidy up" particularly on the leading and trailing edges. 
   
Attachments:
Thanks: Eric, Klipkopwildlife, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2024 05:44 #27 by jon.in.swansea
Replied by jon.in.swansea on topic Big Dragon 3
Ah, good to know that others have noticed the limited life of bands. And thanks for the stages of using bands.

I know that TPU is difficult to break (but generally less elastic), anyone tried printing a band? 
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2024 05:56 #28 by jon.in.swansea
Replied by jon.in.swansea on topic Big Dragon 3
A hint for the printing 'on edge'.  The slicer I use (Prusa) allows you to 'paint on supports'.  Rather than a continuous support I identify a dozen spots along the bottom edge.  It takes a bit of practice to get the placement so that the print bridges across.  The other trick is to increase slightly the Z gap between the support and the prop.  I found 0.2mm allows it to break off much easier - also good to use that when printing flat.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, Quorneng

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Klipkopwildlife
  • Klipkopwildlife's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • I'm supposed to be retired!
More
20 Aug 2024 08:19 #29 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Big Dragon 3
Printing bands is easily done Jon, the sizing is a bit 'hit and miss', they stretch, but not a lot. I had to print bands for the Big Bobber suspension.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Quorneng

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Quorneng
  • Quorneng's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Forum Master
  • Forum Master
More
20 Aug 2024 20:48 - 20 Aug 2024 20:50 #30 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Big Dragon 3
The nylon 11x7 e prop mounted on the Big Dragon 3 fuselage.
 
Compared to the printed props it is a whole lot stiffer!
I have run and measured it at full power with the 4000mAh 3s fully charged.
It draws 28A giving 333W.  I was not worried about the prop some much as the strength of the printed motor mount but it all passed OK.
As the Big Dragon 3 weighs 30oz that gives177W/lb. Should be good for "vertical" or very close to it.
I fear the 2826 is rather over propped by the 11x7 as just a 9x6 is recommended on 3s!   However full power is likely to be used only in burst of no more than 10 seconds. The rest of the time it will be running at much reduced power or even gliding. In addition the motor is pretty well 'stuck out in the open' for good cooling.
May have to wait for the remenents of hurricane Ernesto to pass before it will be calm enough for a re maiden. 
 
 
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 Aug 2024 20:50 by Quorneng.
Thanks: Eric, Klipkopwildlife, jon.in.swansea

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.242 seconds