battery help

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05 Feb 2019 14:45 #1 by vmaxer
battery help was created by vmaxer
hello
ive been given some planes from a bereavement [rip] and theres a few elec foamies one of them [ripmax majister ] as had a new motor ,esc fitted its an overlander thumper v2 t3536/5 650watt,1450 kv with 40a esc my question is what battery do i need . i new electric fliers would get me sooner or later and i would love to get these planes in the air again
thanks graham..

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  • Klipkopwildlife
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05 Feb 2019 17:14 #2 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic battery help
I would go for a 4,000mAh 3s

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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05 Feb 2019 17:57 #3 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic battery help
According to the Overlander web site the Thumper v3 t3536/5 1500 kv is only rated for 408W which would be 40A on a 3s LiPo which is right on the limit of your ESC.
If your ESC is rated for 4s it might pay to go to a 3000 MAh 4s LiPo as then the full power limit of the motor would be achieved at only 31 A. It would require a smaller prop than for a 3s set up. Just putting a 4s battery in place of a 3s and leaving everything else the same will fry the ESC and likely the motor too.
What size (diam and pich) prop does it have at the moment?
Unfortunately there is no way of determining what size prop draws the maximum power for a particular set up so a Watt meter is a wise investment. Then you can then 'bench test' to see what is happening and stop before anything gets damaged.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

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06 Feb 2019 15:28 #4 by vmaxer
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thanks.ok so first off its a multiplex majestic and its turning a 10x8 three blade prop [better with glasses on] i dont tink im ever goin to understand elec flight:(

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06 Feb 2019 19:19 #5 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic battery help
This one? -

If so, that's a Ben Buckle, not a Multiplex.
Can't find one made by Multiplex.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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07 Feb 2019 00:25 - 07 Feb 2019 00:27 #6 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic battery help
Ian
Are you sure you have the right motor type as a 10x8 3 blade (recommended 9x4 to 10x6 2 blade) is over the maximum recommended by Overlander. It would likely draw over 40A.
The slightly longer but otherwise similar 3542/05 710W 1250 kV would handle a 10x8 3 blade, certainly on 3s and possibly on 4s (a Wattmeter!) but it needs a 60A ESC. ;)
Last edit: 07 Feb 2019 00:27 by Quorneng.

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07 Feb 2019 11:29 #7 by vmaxer
Replied by vmaxer on topic battery help
yes it is a multiplex majestic high wing,thats what the motor said on the side yes its got a 3blade 10x8 prop on :whistle: watts meter eh which one:unsure:

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07 Feb 2019 22:57 - 07 Feb 2019 23:01 #8 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic battery help
This is the one I have.
Cheap (this particular one is from the UK) but does the job although you have to solder on the connections of your choice so it can be inserted between the battery and the ESC.
A 60V 100A max is more than I am ever likely to need but higher Amps ones are available for a few quid more..
Last edit: 07 Feb 2019 23:01 by Quorneng.

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08 Feb 2019 08:42 #9 by Flytilbroke
Replied by Flytilbroke on topic battery help
Posts to Australia, but NOT to Scottish Highlands :angry: :angry: :angry:

Have a nice Day, unless I don't like you.

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08 Feb 2019 15:09 #10 by vmaxer
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watts meter ordered ,i take it needs a different prop then ? just need right battery now[badass] :woohoo:
please let scotland in on it...

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08 Feb 2019 16:09 #11 by vmaxer
Replied by vmaxer on topic battery help
thats majister sorry quorneng the esc is overlander xp-40a programmable dc 6.5-22v 2-5 lipo 6-15nixx

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08 Feb 2019 16:36 #12 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic battery help
With a Watt meter you will be able to see how close you get to the 40A ESC limit with your current 3 blade.
In general what you get as a static reading on the ground is the worst case as the prop 'off loads' once in the air however this is where electric is very different to IC.
A 10% increase in rpm due to air speed will result in a huge drop in the current the motor draws and thus the power it delivers. The same rpm rise with IC would not make such a huge difference to the power it delivers and it may even increase if the 'static' rpm was below the peak of the engines power curve. ;)
It follows that the static amps needs to be within the motor and ESC capabilities (but never over or you get 'magic' smoke!) and the Watts (power) adequate to fly the plane but also the prop pitch needs to be sufficient to limit the rpm increase with speed even if this means a corresponding reduction in prop diameter at a cost to the static thrust.
How significant this all is will obviously depend on the flying speed of the plane.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, vmaxer

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09 Feb 2019 09:08 #13 by vmaxer
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huh

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09 Feb 2019 10:07 #14 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic battery help
Quorneng put - but also the prop pitch needs to be sufficient - - blah- blah - - to the static thrust.
-
I don't follow that last bit myself!
If the prop pitch and diameter is such that the motor is not overloaded - then the motor rpm's cannot increase to higher than it's maximum designed per volt (the Kv number).
An under-loaded motor still will not spin any faster, but will not produce enough thrust from the prop to fly the aircraft.
Even if you take the prop off then give the motor full power, it will not spin any faster than it's designed speed - obviously with zero thrust and not much current load!

An over-loaded motor will draw more and more amps/watts as it attempts to turn at it's designed rpm's, and may increase it's rpm's up to or near it's designed max as the loading reduces in flight. (which is why a 25% 'headroom' is advised for power rating of speedo's, etc).

The Watts drawn will drop a little as the prop unloads as it reaches it's forward motion/pitch speed, but the motor will not go any faster.

Where things 'go wrong' in this 'model' is where you have an extremely high-pitched prop - such as on a racing model - at full rpm's, but with a static model - ie just before launching it - the prop will almost certainly be cavitating, effectively stalled, and not producing much thrust (but lots of noise) and drawing LOTS of current as the motor tries to reach it's Kv.
Then as the aircraft is launched, the prop starts to 'bite', the airspeed of the whole increases, and the prop grips (if you can grip a gas!) giving even more airspeed. The motor rpm's might even reduce as the model accelerates, then increase again, back to max Kv as the speed through the air does, and the prop unloads.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

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09 Feb 2019 10:19 - 09 Feb 2019 10:24 #15 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic battery help
Ah - Multiplex Magister - this one -

looks a bit like a Cessna.

Model: Multiplex Magister
Wingspan: 64.2in
Fuselage Length: 46in
Flying Weight: Glow-Powered 67oz
Flying Weight: Electric 84oz

Includes:

Hitec Laser 4 Radio
Hitec HFS-04MG Receiver
Permax 680 Motor
APC 12x8 e-Propeller and 3:1 Gearbox
3 Mini HD Servos
M32 Speed Control
1900mAh Motor Battery
Multiplex 5008 DC NiCd/NiMH charger


Note Permax 680 is a brushed motor, and the model is geared down 3 - 1 to turn the big prop.
The 84 oz flying weight is probably based on Nicads, which WERE heavy!
Elapor is not the lightest of materials, ether.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 09 Feb 2019 10:24 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife

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