Revisiting paper airplanes - like we probably all started out with...

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19 May 2025 17:27 #46 by Klipkopwildlife
Good advice guys, I'll remember next time. I'm feeling a bit shell shocked at the moment, that's 3 for 3!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
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19 May 2025 19:23 #47 by Quorneng
This is the video "gun sight" I use.
 
The 808 camera fits in the little Depron box and the whole thing rest on my forehead held in place by the ex head torch bands.
If you keep the plane in or close to the ring then it is in video frame.
The only time it is a problem is on the final approach if the plane is landing close by. I naturally seem to look just a bit too far ahead to keep it exactly centered.
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20 May 2025 16:15 #48 by Eric
My version of a head-band camera mount.
Mine mounts over the right ear - otherwise the usage is the same as Q's.

 
 

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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21 May 2025 13:37 #49 by jon.in.swansea
I did some more looking at the FX707S - I am thinking about simply increasing the angle of the middle polyhedral rather than rework the root of the wing.

The middle polyhedral It seems to be only about 1 degree. If I could heat bend the EPS to get that to say 3 degrees that would, I believe provide almost as much stability as a central dihedral.  So looking for advise / comments on how to safely and accurately heat bend the EPS of the wing.

I know the farther out the ailerons are the better - but the rather small area at the tip of the wind I seen in photos - might that possibly be equivalenced by taking the existing inner aileron moulding and extending it somewhat, even in towards the root of the wing and turning them into flatirons?

The last idea I have is to use CAD to create a cockpit cover to give more space for electrics.  It would require learning some CAD skills to match that shape. 
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21 May 2025 14:37 #50 by Eric
It depends on how many degrees of di or poly - hedral you have. The greater the average angle, the less effective the ailerons become, other than as drag-brakes!

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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21 May 2025 19:14 #51 by jon.in.swansea
A couple of images for clarification:

a) looking from the front of the wing, going right from the pencil there is a ~1 deg polyhedral bend (almost impossible to see). The tip bend is roughly 6 deg.

If I could figure out how to heat-bend the foam it would be to increase that ~1 deg bend to something like 2.5 degrees.

 

b) looking from top, one option would be to create a flaperon which extends in towards the root and perhaps extends its trailing edge as well.  
    Or a mid-poly aileron (perhaps extend the trailing edge?  There is so little thickness at the tip that I don't think a servo would fit there. The solid lines are where the wing bends.

 

c)looking from below - there is a 0.5mm wide gap running about 3mm deep almost the length of the wing.  Was that for some kind of flat CF stiffiner?

 
 
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21 May 2025 21:15 #52 by Quorneng
jon
You said "There is so little thickness at the tip that I don't think a servo would fit there."
Small aileron - small servo! It fits completely within the wing even in the tip area.
 
 
Extending the wing trailing edge is a good idea particularly if it finishes in a 1mm thick "edge" rather than the 3mm of the as moulded foam.
My extensions are printed in LW-PLA . The extension adds nearly 20% area to the aileron.
 
In fact the whole trailing edge is extended in the same way..
 
Not specifically to increase the wing area, which is does by about 8%, but to increase the aerodynamic efficiency and thus the glide ratio of the wing.

Even with the extended aileron the roll rate can only be described as "adequate" . A full roll takes ages and uses a lot of height.   
I have not found a good way to permanently bend the EPO foam. Too much heat and the foam shrinks thus loosing its smooth moulded surface.
It will be interesting to see what you end up with on your Albatross..

 
 
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22 May 2025 10:57 #53 by Klipkopwildlife
Since the plane was designed to be 'chuck' it will be self stable, I don't understand why you want to increase the stability, I would be tempted to remove the first 1degree of dihedral by cut and re-glue then put cf strip in the slot to re-inforce the new join. By doing this you could then have ailerons longer and closer inboard which may improve the roll rate.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
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22 May 2025 14:34 #54 by Quorneng
With both of my FX707S power conversions I was primarily concerned to create a powered glider that had the best glide performance the airframe could achieve so roll rate was not a priority hence the use of small ailerons. In addition all the  moulded in markings on the wings were carefully filled although it was unlikely to make any difference..

As pointed out the FX707S is basically stable but for its original unpowered free flight form it did not need strong roll stability. A conversion using a powerful motor thus may require extra roll stability and/or more powerful roll capability.
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23 May 2025 19:06 #55 by jon.in.swansea
Thanks for the comments.  I looked back over my prior models and the ones that were most comfortable for me had a 3-4 degree dihedral.  So I created a 3.5g support block to introduce a 4 degree dihedral at the root. PETG with 3 perimeters I suspect the CF would break first.

 

In my belief (which could be faulty) it looks like the kind of slow park flyer that I would be comfortable with.  With that I don't feel the need for trying to bend or flatten the tip.

 

It took a tiny bit of cutting to create the pocket for the block.  My initial fitting leaves a small gap at the join which I am thinking of creating a printed filler for.

I have ordered a folding prop and a 2205 motor - sure it difficult to find one that is not for a quad or with an in-built prop saver!

     

Oh, and I found a FX707S on AilExpress for 18 quid, free shipping supposedly to be delivered by end of June. Perhaps since they will not be shipping much of anything to the States the price for RC products to other parts of the world are, at least for a while competitive (I think 20 quid was what I paid 4 years ago). 



 
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24 May 2025 06:11 #56 by Eric
The thing that drew my eye is that you have two stress points in the same location!
You have the printed dihedral block ends, and the plastic? wing mounting plate ends in exactly the same place.
I would suggest you make a new dihedral block that extends about 1cm beyond where the plastic plate ends- thus spreading the stress areas out instead of focusing them all in the same place.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
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24 May 2025 08:26 #57 by jon.in.swansea
Good observation.  That kind of change is easy to make in the CAD and then reprint.
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30 May 2025 11:15 #58 by jon.in.swansea
A few years ago when Simon was first exploring the FX707S on aeromodellers.co.uk as well as other forums there was some later chatter about the price going up from ~18 to ~30 or even ~40 quid.  Having a 2nd FX707S to apply what I lean on would be a good idea.  I did a search and certainly didn't find much if any stock in the UK but I was seeing hits from AliExpress.  There I saw 17 quid including VAT with free shipping.  Gulp, I never ordered from them before but at that rate it seems a no-brainer.  We shall see if it arrives....

Of course getting onto that system it now wants to sell me other RC things. A 1.4m foam pusher (aka Bixler) with electrics (less battery & Rx) for 40 quid delivered vs ~120 on UK sites. Ok, the electrics might all be mostly junk but I have spares that should cover that.  

Given that I need air time to get my fingers and eyes back in the game it might make sense to briefly pause the scratch-building and use a foamy for that.  After all my non-flying activities with the PlanePrint Paper are a massive multiple of the air time with that beastie and so not a very efficient way to learn.

Anyway, not having used AliExpress before, is this kind of pricing might be normal?  

With cross-Pacific trade being 'who-knows-what-for-who-knows-how-long' now I am wondering if AliExpress vendors are dumping stock on the UK to free up warehouse space.  Anyway, if this is a brief opportunity to get kit for less cost others might want to have a look.
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30 May 2025 12:00 #59 by Klipkopwildlife
I have used Aliexpress quite a lot, the delivery times are quite long but on only one occasion did I not receive an item, I complained and the supplier gave me a credit in their site. I'm not sure that I'll ever use it but the intent was good.
Good way to go Jon.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
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31 May 2025 06:28 - 31 May 2025 06:42 #60 by Eric
I used to use Bang good, but they seem to have been absorbed by Ali.
If you pick and choose carefully, their items are good quality and low-priced.
I often just browse, looking for ideas and inspiration, and find obscure gadgets in the electronics section that makes you wonder how they can sell them for such a low price - in the UK, you can't even buy the components, at the price they sell the complete and working module.
The solar powered watch I'm wearing now is from Ali and as near as I can tell, it's accurate to within a second a month.
You have to bear in mind that a lot of the stuff is made in Chinese 'sweat-shops' - but at the same time it is keeping people employed and fed - - where do you draw the line over what is fair?
Then - if you look deeper into the components the object is made up of, when you buy a UK brand - how many of the sub assemblies are made in PRC anyway? Apart from the 'One man and his dog' type of business, there is almost NO UK manufacturing left, it is all imported - or foreign owned.

Delivery time can be a few days, to a couple of months. It depends on how bulky, and when your placed order catches the shipping container - if yours is first in, it can be a while, but if yours was the last one crammed in beforethe doors shut - - - ! Small items are often sent by air anyway - so the biggest delay is in UK customs and excise - while they decide if it is worth trying to value the contents, then chase the purchaser for import duty - they usually don't bother for smaller charge-costs - it isn't worth the hassle!
I've said before about the radio adaptor plug I sent to the States for, costing about $2, and customs wanted £15 handling charge. I told them where to stick it, and later got one from Ali for £1 including p+p - duty-free.
 

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Last edit: 31 May 2025 06:42 by Eric. Reason: added a comment
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