P51 Oops

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03 Sep 2017 08:44 #16 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
I'm less than happy with the longitudinal rigidity of this fuselage, even after the repair I can flex the fuselage! The movement is in the massive open area of the wing opening and the cockpit.


I am going to lay in some Carbon fibre strip inside the fuselage, sadly I don't have any but I'm going the Pretoria on Wednesday to rescue a dog so I'm pick some up then. I wasn't going to go to the Model shop since my card always takes a beating, but 'when needs must the devil drives'!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
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Thanks: boz, Firewood

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03 Sep 2017 09:00 #17 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
I did a cross check on the control movements, ailerons 11mm each way, the recommended is 7mm so that could account for the aileron sensitivity, rudder 10mm each way, exactly as recommended and elevator 8mm each way, recommended was 6mm, which could account for some of the extreme sensitivity.
I left the TX on (duh) so can't check the actuals for the flight on dual (half) rates.
The manual recommends the CoG 6mm in front of the wing reinforcing with a warning not to stray more than 5mm either way. A recheck after the initial repair shows my CoG is 4mm in front of the recommended point.
I'm beginning to wonder if the flex doesn't affect the decalage which in turn exacerbates the elevator effect.

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: Eric, Quorneng, boz, Firewood

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04 Sep 2017 11:39 #18 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
I said, "I'm beginning to wonder if the flex doesn't affect the decalage which in turn exacerbates the elevator effect."
I've read that a dozen times and I don't think it's right, if you pull up elevator, the rear fuselage will flex down, reducing the decalage which will reduce the lift, which will reduce the amount of effective 'up'.
If you pull down elevator, the rear fuselage will flex up, increasing the decalage which will increase the lift, which will reduce the amount of effective 'down'.
Comments would be appreciated. My head hurts!

Do it now, you may never get another chance
Thanks: boz

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04 Sep 2017 12:45 #19 by one tenor
Replied by one tenor on topic Been flying
You've now got my brain hurting Huh! :woohoo:

Anything will fly given enough power

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04 Sep 2017 13:47 #20 by Ex-Member
Replied by Ex-Member on topic Been flying
Here's a few thoughts:

1. The decalage should be irrelevant, it's a radio model so you set it with the elevator position in flight.

2. It's either unstable due to the C of G or something's moving that shouldn't.

3. C of G, as Eric says, balance it slightly behind the wheels and see what happens.

4. Assemble the model and check the security of the wing, tailplane, ailerons, flaps, elevators.

5. With an assembled model, set up elevator, get someone to hold the model at the wing root, then try to gently bend the elevator back to neutral. Does the fuselage bend, does the tailplane twist, do the control rods distort, etc, etc.

Can't think of anything else at the mo Klippy, but if I do, I'll post it. Notwithstanding, good luck with the model.

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04 Sep 2017 14:34 #21 by Quorneng
Replied by Quorneng on topic Been flying
As you have suggested a 'floppy' rear fuselage is likely to make the elevator control response floppy as well rather than over sensitive.
This can be an issue if you get into a screaming dive as in an extreme case the fuselage flex can completely negate the effect of the elevator and its lawn dart time!
Of more concern is if the fuselage is flexible enough to 'flutter' which is likely to lead to a structural failure of something.
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, boz

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04 Sep 2017 14:41 #22 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
Andys' option 4 is what we should all do prior to committing aviation!
This is now on hold until I can get some CF strip.

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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04 Sep 2017 15:18 #23 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Been flying
If you think back to the middle of last year, I reported the same problem with my Dimona motor-glider. The fuz was so bendy around the canopy opening, that if I pulled a lot of up ele, the canopy popped off!

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!
Thanks: Klipkopwildlife, boz, Firewood

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04 Sep 2017 18:06 #24 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
Yes Eric, 'of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!' My Radian had the same problem and I think Simon has a model with similar characteristics. Still, I've made up my mind to reinforce so that's what I'll do. Won't happen any time soon, I'm in Pretoria Thursday and Friday, then I've got two guys coming Saturday to put the gearbox back in my Double cab.

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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04 Sep 2017 18:23 #25 by Eric
Replied by Eric on topic Been flying
If they're as good as the 'mechanics' around here, you'll find you have six reverse gears, and one forwards! :evil:

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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05 Sep 2017 07:49 #26 by Klipkopwildlife
Replied by Klipkopwildlife on topic Been flying
I do all my own work, it's just I'm physically incapable of removal and installation any more.

Do it now, you may never get another chance

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05 Sep 2017 19:41 #27 by Flytilbroke
Replied by Flytilbroke on topic Been flying
Allways a bit entertaining Klippy.
Seems more than half the guys I fly with in various areas of Scotland are older than you, including me. :whistle:
Small control thows. Expo IS very useful. A gentle, level chuck it, and see what it does ?? without using radio tx.
Fingers crossed for you :evil:

Have a nice Day, unless I don't like you.
Thanks: boz

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