Building Materials, Structures & Processes.

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13 Dec 2011 17:43 #1 by Phil Wood
We have a new member doing a university project.
He is requesting some information ... let's see if we can help him.

I just own the forum .... you guys make it great thanks.
Thanks: phydelis

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13 Dec 2011 17:48 #2 by phydelis
Thanks polyphilla for this opportunity even when i have not gotten my answers i just feel am in the right place. so much thanks

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13 Dec 2011 17:52 #3 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.

phydelis wrote: Thanks polyphilla for this opportunity even when i have not gotten my answers i just feel am in the right place. so much thanks


The guys here will make you welcome & answer any questions you may have ... I've done Uni work myself in Physics & Chemistry & we have experts on most subjects here.
Be patient & you'll get replies.

Why don't you start by telling us exactly what you need.?

Pol.

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13 Dec 2011 17:58 #4 by phydelis
I want to know the following:
1.Reviewing the current practice in model aircraft construction
2.Investigate and review potential improved materials and processes
3.To suggest improvement in model aircraft construction processes
4. Case study: Improving a design using materials, structures and processes
Knowing all this will help me get a broad knowledge of what i need to know to complete my project.

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13 Dec 2011 18:12 #5 by Eric
Where to start!!??

building practices are many and varied.
First off, there is the 'old fashioned' open structure of wood, covered with thin sheet in strategic locations, for stiffness and strength.
The wood type varies with the load it has to bear, ie spruce for the spars in the wings, and main longerons in the fuselage, or balsa, for shaping and skinning.
This is then covered over with one or other of various materials, the end product being a waterproof and fuelproof skin that can be coloured to suit.

A more recent version of this is to use spruce for the main structure, but expanded polystyrene covered with a very thin skin of (usually) obechi veneer, for stiffness.
This is then covered with a skin, as above.

Glassfibre is another commonly used material, often used for forming complex fuselage shapes that would be very difficult to carve from wood.

More recently - a substance variously known as foamy sheet - bouncy foam - EPA, and various other trade names, has come into use for non-scale 'fun' models, as it deforms and springs back when it strikes a solid object, so is difficult to break, unlike a wooden structure. Due to it's flexible nature, it tends to be used on smaller models of around 36" wingspan, but with strategically placed carbon-fibre rods, this can be expanded to larger models.

All kinds of common domestic materials can be pressed into use, with a bit of lateral thinking.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2011 18:16 #6 by Eric
Improvements in construction technique

Ask ten people how they build their models, and you will get fifteen different answers!
It's a bit of a - how long is a piece of string - question.

Commercial builders have their own favourite methods, about which i know little.
The home-builder each has his own way of doing things, and his preferred materials.
The best thing for you do do here is to browse the 'construction' threads, and you can see how things go together.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2011 18:21 #7 by Eric
Improving a design -
The whole secret with flying models is that the weight has to be kept to a minimum, whilst structural strength has to be kept to maximum.

You could build something with more cross-members and diagonals than the Forth Bridge, but don't expect it to leave the ground.
At the other end of the scale, you could build something so delicate that if a fly landed on it, something would snap!

I cannot give you any links that will point to them, as it is not my 'field', but have a research into indoor free-flight. Some of the models used there are so delicate that they are virtually transparent. The slightest air turbulence, ie somebody sneezes nearby, and the structure can break!

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2011 18:26 #8 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.

Eric wrote: Where to start!!??


Exactly Eric! :ohmy:

I think You'd better tell us when this project needs to be finished by phydelis?

You're touching on a subject that is constantly changing & improving ... as fast as you can write about it.
It might be a good idea to split it into groups or sections ... For example , "Foam Plastics", "Woods", "Metals", "Composite Materials eg. Carbon Fibre, Fibre Glass etc", "Covering materials, eg. Iron on film, Tissue, etc."

The list is endless but we'll probably all learn a few things. ;)

Pol.

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13 Dec 2011 18:26 #9 by johnboy
Well done Eric very good post's , 10 out of 10..:cheer:

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13 Dec 2011 20:23 #10 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.

phydelis wrote: I want to know the following:
1.Reviewing the current practice in model aircraft construction
2.Investigate and review potential improved materials and processes
3.To suggest improvement in model aircraft construction processes
4. Case study: Improving a design using materials, structures and processes
Knowing all this will help me get a broad knowledge of what i need to know to complete my project.


Question.... Does this study only include airframe structure, or does it also include propulsion methods ... This could then take you into the world of engines, electric motors, jet turbines, batteries, fuels, etc.

Pol. .... I love Uni projects :cheer:

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13 Dec 2011 20:31 #11 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.
You'll find a lot of information just by spending a little time getting used to navigating the forum.
This may be a new to a non - modeller, but there's loads of information already on here that will cover what you are trying to study.
I would suggest looking through our "Building Threads" category for a start.

www.modelchat.org.uk/forum/building-threads

A lot of the answers you seek are on here already ... we can easily direct you to the appropriate thread.

Pol.

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13 Dec 2011 20:58 #12 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.
Fidelis, ... I should warn you. I hope you have a fat wallet & plenty of spare time. :woohoo:

This may be a Uni project at the moment, but it's addictive. :whistle: ... you have been warned!
Before long, you'll want to have a go at flying a model & you'll get plenty of members offering help.
Once you've had a go at flying you'll be taking out a second mortgage & running to the nearest model shop. :)

It might help us if you told us what subject you are studying? ... If you're in the final year of an engineering degree then it's pointless us trying to explain to you the difference between tensile & shear strength.

Pol.

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13 Dec 2011 21:24 #13 by Phil Wood
Replied by Phil Wood on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.
I'm fascinated by this thread, I'm getting a scan tomorrow to find out why I had internal bleeding & I'm booked in for heart surgery in a weeks time ... wouldn't you think I'd have more on my mind??? :dry:
The truth of the matter is I just can't get this thread out of my brain! :woohoo:

Why haven't we started this subject ourselves? .... I think we possibly got a bit complacent & just assumed that all our members were familiar with all the construction methods & materials.

Fidelis ... I know what Uni's are like so please remember that if you copy anything from here you must reference it. ... Don't get penalized for plagiarism.

Pol.

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13 Dec 2011 22:17 #14 by Eric
Why didn't we think of this...
I suppose it is one of those things that 99% of beginners never consider.
Assuming they aren't a 'throw a tube of glue in the box, shake it, and go fly' builders, (artf)
then they will have built a kit or three, and never gave a thought to why a certain part had doublers, triplers, a D box, and a diagonal brace! The plan says stick A to B, so they do, and it usually works.
When they reach the point where the plan is in their head, and the kit is a pile of planks and sticks, they have already learned HOW, if not WHY, a part needs added support.
As a result, providing it doesn't break in normal usage, they don't worry about it. There are just the odd (?) 1% that want to know WHY, and take the study that bit further.

if you are calm and collected when all about you are going berserk - you've missed something important!

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13 Dec 2011 22:27 #15 by The Beard
Replied by The Beard on topic Re: Building Materials, Structures & Processes.
During the year a student came to our club .He had designed a model that flew itself.He had the c of G all wrong and we had to help him sort problems out.Our resdent expert flew it for him.I then explained that all models fly themselves its just that us pilots get involved and that is where it all goes wrong.We didnt see him again.

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